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that is what you are seeing to it is not just anti-grover norquist movement. it is a realization that they have a political problem. >> a lot of positive signs for a deal. one is that grover norquist, who is kind of a ridiculous figure, it has been exposed as that and people are walking away. businessmen are in town saying we want predictability, and that is a good sign. but the indication from the white house is that obama is pretty dug in -- i want, i will break those republicans. maybe it is just a bargaining position, maybe he is making it, but the feeling is that he really does want to bust the other side. >> what happened in the debt ceiling fight is that they thought they could just do this in work is so they put it out in public. >> but he wants to raise the debt ceiling. >> that is part of the leverage that republicans have -- >> the best leverage if they have. >> obama thinks he has all the cards, he thinks he is napoleon, or perhaps lbj after his landslide. obama won this election by three points. 95% of republicans in the house won by a larger marg
that is what you are seeing to it is not just anti-grover norquist movement. it is a realization that they have a political problem. >> a lot of positive signs for a deal. one is that grover norquist, who is kind of a ridiculous figure, it has been exposed as that and people are walking away. businessmen are in town saying we want predictability, and that is a good sign. but the indication from the white house is that obama is pretty dug in -- i want, i will break those republicans. maybe...
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i would agree with grover norquist on this. the proposal is a nonstarter with republicans and probably most people who have looked at it. we have to get closer to this. they are both very far apart and holding their ground. that's no way to settle it. >> so all this rang lg about the fiscal cliff isn't the goal. with the president asking for $50 billion in stimulus spending, do you worry they might be losing sight of that? >> the best thing for the country is to go over the fiscal cliff. it maximizing the deficit reduction. there's no deal cut between republicans and democrats. it's not going to reduce the amount of money coming out of the deficit by a lot. so if you do that, you go back to the clinton tax rates, cut some defense and we have a short, mild recession for two quarters. we have to get serious about the deficit e. i have no belief that the congress is going to get serious about the deficit. so tom cole was right because he wants to get the republicans back in the mainstream. but the best thing the country could do i
i would agree with grover norquist on this. the proposal is a nonstarter with republicans and probably most people who have looked at it. we have to get closer to this. they are both very far apart and holding their ground. that's no way to settle it. >> so all this rang lg about the fiscal cliff isn't the goal. with the president asking for $50 billion in stimulus spending, do you worry they might be losing sight of that? >> the best thing for the country is to go over the fiscal...
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stand by, we're going to talk about grover norquist. by the way, karen, happy belated birthday. >> thank you. >> i hear you celebrated, i heard there was a wild party in d.c. last night. thanks for the invite. >> quick note here, don't know what you're doing with your sunday, but the president is off golfing and take a listen. take a look at the lineup. the partners on the course, u.s. trade representative, former mayor of dallas, ambassador ron kirk. democratic heavyweight, pro tension gubernatorial candidate. terry mcauliffe. and none other than william jefferson clinton playing. imagine the conversation out there on the links at andrews. >>> up next, we'll talk to the former senate majority leader who recently served as u.s. special envoy for middle east peace. was the leading peace negotiator for that region, former senator george mitchell will join us live on the other side of the break. we'll spend some time with him. >>> and record rainfall up and down the west coast. a live report from one northern california town, where the riv
stand by, we're going to talk about grover norquist. by the way, karen, happy belated birthday. >> thank you. >> i hear you celebrated, i heard there was a wild party in d.c. last night. thanks for the invite. >> quick note here, don't know what you're doing with your sunday, but the president is off golfing and take a listen. take a look at the lineup. the partners on the course, u.s. trade representative, former mayor of dallas, ambassador ron kirk. democratic heavyweight,...
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. >> and we have also made this about grover norquist. if i hear about him one more time. this is absolutely ridiculous. >> peter king's wife better not meet grover norquist because we know what she is going to do. doug, it seems that both sides are kind of, you know, saying well, i will blame the other side, i will blame the other side. the republicans can't each get together to say we'll blame the other side. they just think we are going to figure this thing out. >> here is the real problem. neither side is doing what was done in the mid 90's when president clinton and newt gingrich got together which is putting politics second, the country first and bargaining. all this kabuki play of a pluck relations fight is frankly insulting to the american people and destructive. >> you know why? i mean, this was a billion-dollar race. there is money on the line and now it's become so political that i don't even think we can. >> the point is we have lost that sense of people who put the country before politics. and that didn't start after this election. this has been going on for t
. >> and we have also made this about grover norquist. if i hear about him one more time. this is absolutely ridiculous. >> peter king's wife better not meet grover norquist because we know what she is going to do. doug, it seems that both sides are kind of, you know, saying well, i will blame the other side, i will blame the other side. the republicans can't each get together to say we'll blame the other side. they just think we are going to figure this thing out. >> here is...
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but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because they won't allow real tax reform to support it. >> i totally agree. you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall and we have much stingier-defined public goods. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are one where there's this universal pay in. the way we're going with this inequality is talking about means testing, which is a way from a model of universal pay in and benefit. that's sustainable. >> chris hayes, thank you for being here. >>> oneover the coolest things human beings has ever seen celebrates a big birthday. it's sort of a best new moment of geek and it's coming up. >>> still ahead, the amazing story behind this incredible photo. if you look closely, that's me just to the north of mexico. wait. that's not right. >>> in 1997 th
but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because they won't allow real tax reform to support it. >> i totally agree. you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall and we have much stingier-defined public goods. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are...
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. >> when we talk about that let's show what grover norquist had to say. he's the anti-tax pledge crusader. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> that's like say anaconda two will dwarf anaconda one. the sequel will be more intense. a poll find out last week that they found a majority of americans will blame the republicans in congress not the president for failure to make the deal. as we hear what grover says you see at any time other way. you say it will be the democrats. >> it could be. depending on what happens. if they keep posturing we can go off the fiscal cliff it won't be such a big deal i don't think that's where most democrats will end up. you they are president and a lot of people down in washington saying they don't want to go off the fiscal cliff. as far as grover norquist notices, i don't think republicans should be caving to a special interest of one, frankly. we do see some brave republicans coming out there and they should be supported because they are about fi
. >> when we talk about that let's show what grover norquist had to say. he's the anti-tax pledge crusader. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> that's like say anaconda two will dwarf anaconda one. the sequel will be more intense. a poll find out last week that they found a majority of americans will blame the republicans in congress not the president for failure to make the deal. as we hear what...
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but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. i worry the compromise here is a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because republicans one allow creation of real tax reform that would support it. >> the other problem. i totally agree. the other problem, you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall, and we have much stingier-defined public goods. that we provision through the state. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are one where there's this universal pay-in and universal benefit. the way we're going with this inequality is talking about means testing and redistribution, which is away from a model of universal pay-in and universal benefit, that is the thing that is long-term sustainable. >> chris hayes, thank you for being here. host of "up with chris hayes." >>> one of the coolest things human beings has ever seen celebrat
but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. i worry the compromise here is a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because republicans one allow creation of real tax reform that would support it. >> the other problem. i totally agree. the other problem, you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall, and we have much...
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norquist no tax increase at all and here you are agreeing to what is effectively a tax increase. and i think that both sides are going to have to give a little bit of something, and that 37% may be the golden median. >> doug, let's talk about the unemployment report that came out today. it shows 7.7% unemployment. you know, i know a lot of democrats want to say, oh, it's dropping, but it seems to me for months and months and months, the unemployment numbers have just remained awful. they move a little up and down, but they're just a mess. 12 million people unemployed. it seems to me that that could cut either way. republicans could still lean on that and say, you may be winning the pr war on this thing right now, but don't forget, you've got a big problem out there that you'll need our help on. >> i think there are three important things going on. the employment report was not strong. despite the top line number going down to 7.7%. the reason it fell is that another 350,000 people gave up looking entirely and left the labor force. that's not a good news story. on exactly the same
norquist no tax increase at all and here you are agreeing to what is effectively a tax increase. and i think that both sides are going to have to give a little bit of something, and that 37% may be the golden median. >> doug, let's talk about the unemployment report that came out today. it shows 7.7% unemployment. you know, i know a lot of democrats want to say, oh, it's dropping, but it seems to me for months and months and months, the unemployment numbers have just remained awful. they...
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. >>> meanwhile, grover norquist making a new prediction should lawmakers fail to reach a deal. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party, too, is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >>> another major story from the weekend, it was an emotional weekend in the nfl and in kansas city as the chiefs took the field on sunday just 24 hours after a tragedy involving a key member of their team. police say linebacker jovan belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, the mother of his infant daughter. minutes later he took his own life in the parking lot of arrowhead stadium where the chiefs play right in front of his coaches. nbc's tan trareporter. >> reporter: kansas city head coach romeo crennel wiped a
. >>> meanwhile, grover norquist making a new prediction should lawmakers fail to reach a deal. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four years of regulation taxes. he wants to...
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they take an allegiance to grover norquist. give me a break. the allegiance should go to the united states of america were host: is your solution? caller: i would get rid of all of them, that's what i would do, thank you. host: will leave the bear. -- we will leave it there. caller: i have two questions. everybody keeps referring to social security as an entitlement. i paid into that, it is not an entitlement, it is mine. i have not heard any comments about all the people who pay absolutely no taxes at all. i will hang up. thank you. guest: social security qualifies as an entitlement in the sense that is not an annual appropriation. this is a technical term in washington that you get back much more than you put in and you qualify for it because of certain checklists we created wendell: was put together. in that sense, it is an entitlement, not different in medicare. host: here's a quick comment from one of our viewers -- guest: they are unwilling to pull the trigger and make the investments. you can say the problem is conference but we cannot r
they take an allegiance to grover norquist. give me a break. the allegiance should go to the united states of america were host: is your solution? caller: i would get rid of all of them, that's what i would do, thank you. host: will leave the bear. -- we will leave it there. caller: i have two questions. everybody keeps referring to social security as an entitlement. i paid into that, it is not an entitlement, it is mine. i have not heard any comments about all the people who pay absolutely no...
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. >> mary, republicans have been fighting over the new no taxes pledge and grover norquist has republicans on record i won't vote for a tax increase. are they really ending up here negotiating with themselves in a way that hurts their positions, vis-a-vis the president? >> certainly, they are, i think that the president is energized by the fact he thinks, look, i ran a lousy economy for four years, i left unemployment high, i increased the size of the debt and the deficit, i got everything i wanted, the place is a mess and look, i got reelected. so, what's so hard about me continuing to doing that and blaming it on them. obviously, i'm very good at that and that's base clr where he's going here and the republicans i think are not very good poker players, they're signaled they're relucks tennant to go over the cliff. if you're in this showdown, i is a, come on, bring it. >> paul: they will get blamed if that happens and the president is signaling that. that wouldn't be a pleasant outcome for them. you're saying they should suggest to the president we had he' be willing to do that and maybe
. >> mary, republicans have been fighting over the new no taxes pledge and grover norquist has republicans on record i won't vote for a tax increase. are they really ending up here negotiating with themselves in a way that hurts their positions, vis-a-vis the president? >> certainly, they are, i think that the president is energized by the fact he thinks, look, i ran a lousy economy for four years, i left unemployment high, i increased the size of the debt and the deficit, i got...
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norquist, et cetera. >> let's get to grover norquist in a minute, but i do have a question. the gop plan consists of $2.2 trillion in savings over a decade. that includes raging the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67. and lowering cost of living increases for social security benefits. they also propose overhauling the tax code to generate $800 billion in new revenue. but without raising taxes on the wealthy. in a letter to the president, leading republicans compared their plan to one erskine bowles drew up last year. >> not even close. >> he rejected that connection and the white house, of course, is hitting the road. we'll get to that in a moment. but here's my question. i've been watching the coverage of this and reading it. and there's a lot of liberals who were like, he won, ha, ha, they're so arrogant about it, it's hard to like them. because it's just not attractive. but he did -- >> yeah, he won. >> and he is going to the american people with this. and why can't the starting point of these negotiations be about the tax rates and go from there. why are we at sq
norquist, et cetera. >> let's get to grover norquist in a minute, but i do have a question. the gop plan consists of $2.2 trillion in savings over a decade. that includes raging the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67. and lowering cost of living increases for social security benefits. they also propose overhauling the tax code to generate $800 billion in new revenue. but without raising taxes on the wealthy. in a letter to the president, leading republicans compared their plan to...
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host: to attend the wednesday meetings of grover norquist? guest: no. host: why not? guest: you have to determine how you'll spend your time. that's not the best use of my time. i think that is something necessary that he does. host: first call for armstrong williams comes from fred in michigan. caller: hi. i have two questions concerning the fiscal cliff. the cash cuts that republicans -- the spending cuts on medicare. why don't we allow them to negotiate medicare and to reduce the cost of medicine? that should save you a lot of money yearly. i agree totally about the republicans and democrats spending money stupidly just before the election. both sides voted to refurbish something like 170 army tanks that the army said they'd do not need. they went and voted to repair those tanks. why are we wasting our money? democrats want to cut taxes. host: armstrong williams? guest: we haven't gotten to affordable care and medicare and medicaid. if affordable care was administered correctly and if he did not have the special interest groups and if tort reform was not included,
host: to attend the wednesday meetings of grover norquist? guest: no. host: why not? guest: you have to determine how you'll spend your time. that's not the best use of my time. i think that is something necessary that he does. host: first call for armstrong williams comes from fred in michigan. caller: hi. i have two questions concerning the fiscal cliff. the cash cuts that republicans -- the spending cuts on medicare. why don't we allow them to negotiate medicare and to reduce the cost of...
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norquist pledge. why do we have to be held to a pledge some would say? >> some. why give up something if a negotiation until you get something back? they are not getting anything back. >>gregg: the concession was a mistake? >> obviously. >> what we are missing from the republicans, that would be a positive message of what they are for. if as they did with paul ryan, they say we want to take medicare, social security, medicaid, and they do the same thing now with mcconnell and they need a game changer. >> as i said, on the debt crisis --. >> no, it is about spending cuts and the president is proposing not cuts but more spending. >> here is the point. if the republicans said, wait, we are going to start right here on this constitutional question, make the democrats in the senate and house of representatives vote, do you think mary landrieu would vote to give him total power? the republicans do not have a clue how to handle this. >> that would be smart, to call a vote right now on the president's ability
norquist pledge. why do we have to be held to a pledge some would say? >> some. why give up something if a negotiation until you get something back? they are not getting anything back. >>gregg: the concession was a mistake? >> obviously. >> what we are missing from the republicans, that would be a positive message of what they are for. if as they did with paul ryan, they say we want to take medicare, social security, medicaid, and they do the same thing now with...
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bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we have one house, that's it. the presidency and the senate in the democrats hands. a lot of people are putting forth a theory. i think it has merit. you go in and give the president the 2% increase that he's talking about. the rate increase on the top 2%. all of a sudden, the shift goes back to entitlements. >> what corker is also saying, what he went on to say is when we hit the debt ceiling next year, in february, then republicans are going to have the leverage then. that's something the president dispu disputed. one problem, bob corker is a senator, he's not in the house of representati
bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we...
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others will take their oath to grover norquist. >> coom meeting ceremonies. >> grover, you know, the temple on 16th street. >> maybe the capitol grill, k street. it's unbelievable. >> carnalishment this is something i hope you can get in the debate is why we are here in the first lace that republicans put us on the path to the fiscal cliff by not doing what congress -- dozens of congresses have done, which is to extend the debt limit, not spend more money on getting into debt. >> that's to pay the interest on the debt we already 0. >> that's exact right. >> we are here right now, this republican, you know, fiscal cliff because they forced us to be here because they wouldn't do the responsible thing in 2011. >> exactly. look, we are here because the republicans did what no family may america would do, they took out the credit card. they put expenses on that credit card and decided we don't want to pay what we owe. these were their decisions. history is interesting but it's not going to get us away from this cliff. what will is pass the petition now. we can argue history later. give th
others will take their oath to grover norquist. >> coom meeting ceremonies. >> grover, you know, the temple on 16th street. >> maybe the capitol grill, k street. it's unbelievable. >> carnalishment this is something i hope you can get in the debate is why we are here in the first lace that republicans put us on the path to the fiscal cliff by not doing what congress -- dozens of congresses have done, which is to extend the debt limit, not spend more money on getting into...
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now, grover norquist calls these imriewr thoughts, buimpure thou. but to most americans, it's common sense. now the onus is on republicans and especially their leadership to follow this encouraging rhetoric with some action. and, mr. president, so far that has been lacking. the lengths to which republicans are now going in order to protect the rich from paying higher rates would be comical if it weren't so detrimental. they say they've accepted that revenue needs to be on the table, but then the proposal that speaker boehner made to the president would actually cut rates for the rich. it lacks any details about where that claimed revenue would come from. and just as an independent analyst confirmed about the ryan plan, and just like we saw in the romney plan, when you're talking about simply closing loopholes and ending deductions, either the math doesn't add up or the middle class ends up bearing the entire burden. republicans are tying themselves up in knots to avoid the obvious. easiest way to raise revenue from the wealthiest americans is simply
now, grover norquist calls these imriewr thoughts, buimpure thou. but to most americans, it's common sense. now the onus is on republicans and especially their leadership to follow this encouraging rhetoric with some action. and, mr. president, so far that has been lacking. the lengths to which republicans are now going in order to protect the rich from paying higher rates would be comical if it weren't so detrimental. they say they've accepted that revenue needs to be on the table, but then...
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host: do you agree with the grover norquist tax pledge to not raise taxes? caller: in service of the tax rates? yes, i do. i am also left scratching my head because i believe when the bush tax cuts were put into effect that many democrats oppose those as being bad for the economy. yet, and now, they are running around saying we cannot let the rates go back to the talks rates that we set up under president clinton -- the tax rates go back. what let's stick out with came out yesterday from the republicans. they want to bring in new revenue from tax reform, $800 billion being their calculations. do you agree with some who say that is increasing taxes? caller: yes and no. it depends. i would agree with that form of tax revenue increase if it went with spendingd reductions. host: that is where you see compromise? caller: we have been through this before. i have friends that frequently site back in reagan's presidency that president reagan increased taxes, but he did that as a consequence of an agreement with the democratic leadership with the democratic leadershi
host: do you agree with the grover norquist tax pledge to not raise taxes? caller: in service of the tax rates? yes, i do. i am also left scratching my head because i believe when the bush tax cuts were put into effect that many democrats oppose those as being bad for the economy. yet, and now, they are running around saying we cannot let the rates go back to the talks rates that we set up under president clinton -- the tax rates go back. what let's stick out with came out yesterday from the...
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grover norquist said why don't we just get the c-span and watch the sausage being made. it could be too scary. >> brian: they had him out there and he defended himself yesterday. he's doing a good job exactly defining what he's going for. he's not the angry guy everyone portrade himself. mr. #1: makes a point that washington smends too much. another story that everyone is talking about. kansas city chief's player who murdered his girlfriend, shot her nine times and killed himself. brad underwood has more from kansas city. good morning, brad. >> good morning, it has been an emotional high and low in the last couple of days in kansas city. they are continuing to learn more about the events leading up with the incident with javon and his girlfriend casandra perkins and what will happen to zoe. javon's mother the raise the three month old in long island. funeral arrangements haven't been made for casandra or javon. the first thing out of the head coach's mouth. thoughts and prayers going out to both families. javon a starter of the kansas city chiefs and his girlfriend was a
grover norquist said why don't we just get the c-span and watch the sausage being made. it could be too scary. >> brian: they had him out there and he defended himself yesterday. he's doing a good job exactly defining what he's going for. he's not the angry guy everyone portrade himself. mr. #1: makes a point that washington smends too much. another story that everyone is talking about. kansas city chief's player who murdered his girlfriend, shot her nine times and killed himself. brad...
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norquist pledge to not raise taxes? >> guest: it's not up to me to decide what violates and what doesn't but i don't think so. i think keeping tax rates where they are is the question and you can increase revenue without increasing the tax rate partly by that and a more efficient system. it distributes investments away from the nonproductive loopholes towards things that generate economic growth and that's something that paul ryan has been a leading advocate of. so i think this is a really smart proposal by the speaker, and it was -- i was pleased to see every republican. it wasn't just his name. it was extremely significant. hopefully the white house understands that means a unity of the republican leadership at that table, and if there's unity there i assure you there is in the republican conference. >> host: here's a letter to the white house with of the signatures of the leadership team including paul ryan of the budget committee. a lot of the callers have talked about the lack of detail in the proposal. what loopho
norquist pledge to not raise taxes? >> guest: it's not up to me to decide what violates and what doesn't but i don't think so. i think keeping tax rates where they are is the question and you can increase revenue without increasing the tax rate partly by that and a more efficient system. it distributes investments away from the nonproductive loopholes towards things that generate economic growth and that's something that paul ryan has been a leading advocate of. so i think this is a...
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they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's naive of me to even bring this up -- but wouldn't that be important for them to take on what those are together and shoulder to shoulder? >> what i remember last summer when the president said to boehner essentially, let's lock arms and jump off the, you know, at that point it was a different kind of cliff, together. it's going to require both leaders. each is going to have to make sacrifices. in order to get this done. and i think that, you know, i think everybody recognizes the consequences of not getting it done. >> so how do you tell republicans that won't support a tax increase unless they believe entitlement reform's c
they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's...